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impression that they've put a lot of thought into this matter.The Needs of New Educational SpacesInterviewer: Let's talk about planning. You've said that architecture will change as a result of the diversification of schools. However, in elementary schools at the beginning of the Meiji era, there was no real concept that the library should be the nucleus of the school.Suzuki: Yes. Once, that may have been how the elementary school library was regarded. The elementary school I spoke of a moment ago, Hizuchi Elementary School, was constructed in the postwar period. In this school, the library is like a balcony, projecting out over the river. It clearly occupies a central location. I imagine things have changed with the times. With regard to universities, the library is the center of the campus at both Columbia University and Harvard University, and I think that indicates the thinking that the library was the center of knowledge. Nowadays, however, there is an increasingly widespread perception that information comes from the Internet. I definitely feel that the library now is viewed with greater disregard than is necessary. I think that if only one book was read by someone during a thirty-year period, then the library has served an extremely important function.Interviewer: The Iwaki Meisei University Learning Center is an addition to the library, but here there was no facility that served as the nucleus of the campus, and there was no place for students to congregate. So the plan fused the library, which is the nucleus of learning, with the facility that would serve as the central gathering place for students.Suzuki: I think it's good to have a place to gather, a place to spend time at, a place to serve as the nucleus. When you talk about gathering, some people think that Japanese universities should adopt a boarding school system. But to the people in the local community, if the university adopted a boarding school system, the students wouldn't go out of the university, and that would be bad for the local community. So it's difficult to build dormitories. I guess there are both advantages and disadvantages. It's true that with a boarding school system in which the cafeteria was located within the dormitory, it would be like a monastery in the old days - the students would go in and never come out. In the case of suburban type universities, I think there should be more dormitories where everyone lives together. But it would be difficult to do that. At one time I was a visiting professor at Harvard University. Even judging only from the placement of the dormitories and libraries, I though the Harvard campus was quite well designed. The dormitories are on campus, but for security and other reasons the first and second year students stay in a dormitory in the very center of the campus. When they become third and fourth year students, they move to the outer dormitories and they have a considerable degree of freedom. And when they enter graduate school, they leave the campus and stay in rooming houses. And in the center of these houses and classroom buildings is Harvard Yard where the libraries are. From the area around Harvard Yard, as students go to higher and higher in terms of their academic year, their domain expands in concentric fashion. I think it's very well designed.Interviewer: The continuation of memories that you spoke of at the beginning, the feeling of roots in that one is a graduate of a particular university, is undoubtedly created in various ways. At a new campus, what kind of elements do you think will form those memories?Suzuki: For example, the Red Gate at Tokyo University and the Okuma Auditorium at Waseda are symbols. These are both buildings of historical value, but even on a newly constructed campus I think buildings are the most important focal point for memories. And I think the biotope at Poole Gakuin and other structures may have the potential to remain in the memory as well. However, I don't know if it's a good idea to make them too artificial.Interviewer: I see. Symbolic elements may indeed tend to remain in the memories of many people. But maybe if we look at the individual level, we might find that each student discovers a favorite place and keeps that place in a corner of his or her memory.Suzuki: I agree. In that sense, schools like Adachi Educational Institute are irregular in shape, but I don't think it's right to say that this might be wasted space. They constitute areas for fun - places where there are curious sloping angles, and where suddenly you can see outside. I think those kinds of places are good in that they provide psychological release. I think one of the themes of the design was the interface between regular and irregular areas, and naturally it's important that the regular parts be in the center and that the formality be resolved properly. Some people think that a design where everything is symmetrical and uses axis lines is rather fascistic and not good design. But people value a formal aesthetic. I think it's very good for there to be some psychological release in this type of design. I really like a certain school designed by Hiroshi Oe*5 called Furendo Gakuen (Friends School). It has square units in a checkerboard pattern, with corridors in the center and a place like a veranda on the outside. And there are outer stairs here and there, creating two-way escapes in a random pattern. The school says that the veranda makes it easy to teach the students to clean their windows by themselves. And Mr. Oe said that if that were the case, it would be better to have some release. Places that seem random at first glance, that would sometimes surprise you a bit. In other words, places that offer psychological release. I imagine that there are people who like monumental style buildings, but I think it's also very important for a school to have more places with more room, where one can go and not stand out, and where everyone can find a place where they feel comfortable. In those respects, I felt that the buildings you showed me were well designed.Interviewer: Finally, could you tell us your opinion of the Takenaka Corporation Design Department?Suzuki: In a certain sense, design is conducted with construction as a precondition. That has its advantages, but to take the opposite perspective, it is possible that the buildings will all gradually become of the same type. But looking at these buildings, I felt that it didn't seem that the designs were all done by the same organization. I really think that this is extremely important as regards the approach to design and construction. Even within the same organization, other design department personnel can look at the building and their response can be surprise at what has been achieved or delight at an unusual concept. I get the impression that each person is operating freely and autonomously. It didn't really feel like a company - the atmosphere was more like that of a school. I hope they continue to do well in the future.Interviewer: Thank you very much for speaking with us today.(Interviewers: Kazunori Sekiya, Takashi Yokota, Yuko Taguchi, Tomoko Okada)*1 William Merrell Vories: An architect born in the U.S. in 1880 and later became a naturalized citizen of Japan. He designed numerous Western-style buildings. His representative work is Doshisya University Keimei-kan Building (registered tangible cultural property.)*2 HACCP: See the Design Work of Tokyo Seishin Technical College for Cooking School (Page 20.)*3 Law Concerning the Restriction on Industrial Activities in the Urbanized Areas of the Metropolitan Region: The law controls the new construction and extension of factories and universities in the district where industrial activities are restricted.*4 Masatsune Matsumura: An unregistered architect born in 1913. Hizuchi Elementary School (1958) is ranked among the 20 Best Modern Architectures in Japan and the Docomomo Japan 100 Selection.*5 Hiroshi Oe: An architect born in 1913. Friend Gakuen (1968) is ranked among the Docomomo Japan 100 Selection.Hiroyuki Suzuki / Art historian1945Born in Tokyo1968Graduated from Department of Architecture, Faculty of Engineering, the University of Tokyo1974-Full-time Instructor and Associate Professor, Faculty of Engineering, the University of Tokyo1974-75Studied at Courtauld Institute of Art,London University(overseas student on scholarship awarded by the British Government)1984Doctor of Engineering1993Affiliate Professor, Harvard University (Department of Art History)1997-8Vice President, Architectural Institute of Japan2000-Affiliate Professor, Waseda University2005Awarded Purple Ribbon MedalInterview