DESIGNWORKS Vol.08

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Interview with Takeshi Nakagawa"21st Century Architecture and Organization Design- Restoration of the Rough and Unpolished and Advanced Architecture"Interviewer: This edition focuses mainly on works for office, research, and production facilities. I would like to ask for your analysis of Takenaka design and the directions for the future, as well as the possibilities for architecture from a historical perspective.Nakagawa: The works of Takenaka have a particular style regardless of how they are viewed, and there is also a certain expectation. I have not felt this since seeing the Tokyo headquarters building. The first impression is that each work has individuality and is interesting. In the case of the Astellas Research Center, a very large-scale building is brought together in a sharp and fluid shape with high accuracy, so I feel that this is one of the new trends for Takenaka. I think the power of Takenaka as an organization comes out in this building. However, although I think polished and advanced is good, at the same time I think that obtaining something like “earthiness” is a task. It would have been good if a connection to the land and nature of Tsukuba had been expressed. In the Innatus headquarters building unique architecture has been created by the combination of a small office with residences. I think the façade, which is composed of panels with holes, plays an important role in this. The relationship with the road, the avoidance of the line of sight, and other very diverse factors have not just been mixed together, and these decisive aspects are effective. I think the harmonization with the surrounding streets, the scale, the design method, and the expression are all skillfully appropriate. Regarding the Skyperfect Tokyo Media Center, I heard the explanation that the large central atrium space was a “crevice to the universe," and I thought “wow!” However, although I think that placing the antennae on top of this space is an interesting idea, I think that a space with a device that more directly connected people to outer space would have been better. This is maybe very simple, but very important. I think of this type of thing as a symbolic touch of the “rough and unpolished," and I feel that organizational and technological support for the restoration of the “rough and unpolished” will be important in the future. Normally the design departments of general contractors have high capability to support the general technical staff. In the case of Takenaka, how to express this in design is also important, so there is concern for the visual aspects. Design supported by a large organization and technology has many excellent aspects and has high accuracy and sophistication. While this is good, I think it also has some deficiencies. In the future, while maintaining the very high technology, I think the rough and unpolished and that with a nostalgic simplicity and feel is to be sought from the point of view of shape or materials or relationship with nature.Restoration of the “Rough and Unpolished” in ArchitectureInterviewer: The end point is not just an advanced optimum solution to diverse architectural requirements, but efforts towards a “restoration of the rough and unpolished” that is in the essence of architecture are important as organization design.Nakagawa: High performance is sought and the “rough and unpolished” is avoided. This is the case technologically, in form, and in materials. In particular, the more a large and diverse organization emphasizes collaboration the more pronounced is this trend. I believe that architecture is all about the relationship with the earth. Without a doubt, this is what will be sought in the 21st century. Architecture will not suddenly become new, but the majority will be a continuation. I think the methods passed down will change little by little, but I think architecture will progress towards its true nature by architects individually seeking out the essence of architecture. Therefore architecture in the 21st century will not become more advanced, but it must turn to that direction that restores that which is important. performance, materials, technology. Also, for example Daishoin, and Taian of Rikyu. Is it possible to tell which is better? This is because for example the complex concept, movement, etiquette, and large background space has been abstracted as “two tatami mats." Abstraction is a process that involves elimination as well as concentration, so I think that similar possibilities exist with modern materials, such as pipes.Interviewer: Incidentally, can you feel the flow of history in the works of Takenaka?Nakagawa: I am probably mistaken in this, but there are very few companies that have become general contractors with the lineage of a master carpenter such as Toemon Takenaka. There are almost no companies in the construction industry that started from carpentry. There are companies that have become general contractors from commercial capital or an employment business, but the traditions are different from those of the construction of buildings. Temple and shrine carpenters and master carpenters were the great builders of that time. I think the core is the spirit of the work of the medieval carpenters. The only general contractor design department with such a base is Takenaka. In fact, it is because of this that architects with the true spirit of the medieval tradesmen have gathered in Takenaka. I think it is wonderful that Takenaka has put so much passion into the carpentry culture, starting with the Takenaka Carpentry Tools Museum. I think that 21st century architecture will be the creation of buildings with high performance technological devices, based on historical culture. A large organization can accomplish this, and I think Takenaka Corporation can accomplish it.Interviewer: Hiroyuki Iwamoto once said “an architect can obtain a high reputation for a single unique building. We are an organization so this is not possible. If we make the single word “refinement” the focal point, it will precisely open up the way for the organization."Nakagawa: But “refinement” alone does not get you very far. If a building is determined by just an economic structure, there is no refinement or technological elements incorporated into it, just the cost. In this case what should architecture do? Architecture is looking for the possibilities for dealing with this situation. A large organization can safely produce “refinement." It cannot be denied that refinement is important and fundamental. However, throwing off the fundamentals that have become the overwhelming framework is also important, and I think that the power to do this should be cultivated.Re-discovering the Beauty of the Total ImageInterviewer: Can you tell us something about the future possibilities for architecture from a historical perspective, based on the flow of 20th century modernism.Nakagawa: This is rather difficult. I think it cannot be denied that of the relationships relative to society, architecture is positioned relative to functional facilities. There is religious architecture, there is residential architecture, and each has its role to play. However, at the same time a building, no matter how trivial, has a unity, a kind of absoluteness. It depends on whether there is beauty as a totality while at the same time playing its role as its function. In the 20th century, organizations have spread very rapidly, and undoubtedly they have developed as a result of various specializations. However, the essence does not change. Therefore, I think that the role of architecture is to fulfill the societal role, at the same time as realizing beauty. However, this became difficult in the 20th century. In the 21st century, when buildings that all looked the same were reproduced, you Materials and technology that appears to be low-tech but in reality is very advanced are important tasks for the future which will determine the winners and losers among the large organizations and general contractors’ design departments.Interviewer: As organization design, it is necessary to have the attitude of challenging the essence of architecture.Nakagawa: I evaluate the design departments of the general contractors. This is because they have the technological and organizational backbone to produce architecture. The essence of the contracting industry is realizing what people want. However, in a large organization this essence is diluted a little in some cases. I think this has to do with whether the whole life and weight of the organization correspond to the conditions for creating architecture or not. I understand that large organizations are whole-heartedly oriented towards this, but the way that free architects apply their energy is a bit different. You could say that the specific gravity is different. Although the creations of an organization may be advanced, perhaps they can appear slightly cold. By various analyses failure can be eliminated. However, that which has no failure can appear to be cold. For example, the architecture of Terunobu Fujimori is liked by everyone, and it expresses the elements of the era, so his work has been highly evaluated. An understandable connection with the earth is expressed. Therefore the question is whether it is possible to produce high technology high performance Fujimori-type architecture or not? For example, when the technology to be able to produce large-scale wooden structures was born, Horyu-ji was created by incorporating the age-defining novelty of this technology. Therefore, I think that the joy of creating “a shape having a certain power” was overflowing. Considering the achievement of the essence and freedom of technology, going in the direction to first enable the essence of humanity to be realized through modern advanced precision technology is most appropriately expressed as a restoration of the “rough and unpolished."Interviewer: The possibilities of architecture depend on the attitude of the designer.Nakagawa: Buildings belong to the owners, and that is an absolute condition. As a result, the building must function economically. In the words of Togo Murano: “99% belongs to the building owner, but as 1% is entrusted to Murano, that 1% is Murano’s." However that 1% is superior to the 99%. I think all the severity, training, ardor, and so on for this 1% is what gives meaning to architecture. While responding to all the requests of the building owner as an ally, it is necessary to take care of that “designer’s 1%." Architecture that does not do this can be excellent, perhaps, but I don’t think it can ever become something that permanently symbolizes an era.Symbolism, abstraction, refinementInterviewer: In the case of the headquarters building for Senshukai, the largest mail-order retailer company, which is one of the works featured in this edition, the building owner requested the image of a European chateau with dormer windows. What are your views on interpreting “symbolism” imposed on architecture?Nakagawa: I think the building is well done in the image of a chateau. However, symbolism by abstraction must have depth. Not just physical aspects, such as providing a small wall here because it is good for the performance. For example, the Paris Opera House building is not so wonderful as stylish architecture, but it is amazing, isn’t it? I think the old opera houses are better than the new, modern opera houses. The old opera houses are superior in various abstractions, such as Interview